THE FEYWILD: Exploring the Uncharted Territory’s Mysterious Wonders – RPGBOT.Podcast S4E30

Listen on apple podcasts
Listen on amazon music

Show Notes

Welcome, adventurers! On this episode of the RPGBOT.Podcast, follow us into the wild and wondrous world of the Feywild. A place where the impossible becomes possible and magic reigns supreme. Join us as we journey through the mystical realm, uncovering its mysteries and uncovering its secrets. So grab your maps and prepare yourselves, for the journey ahead will be full of surprises and wonder. Are you ready to step into the Feywild? Then let us begin!

Materials from RPGBOT.net

If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple PodcastsSpotify, or your favorite podcast app. It’s a quick, free way to support the podcast, and helps us reach new listeners.

If you love the show, consider joining us on Patreon, where backers at the $5 and above tiers get ad free access to RPGBOT.net and the RPGBOT.Podcast, direct access to the RPGBOT.Team on the RPGBOT.Discord, and can join us every week for live-streamed recordings.

Support us on Amazon.com when you purchase products recommended in the show at the following link: https://amzn.to/3NwElxQ

How to Find Us:

In-depth articles, guides, handbooks, reviews, news on Tabletop Role Playing at RPGBOT.net

Tyler Kamstra

Ash Ely

Randall James

Producer Dan

Transcript

Randall James (02:26.214)

Welcome to the RPGBot.podcast, I’m Reynolds James and with me is Tyler Kamstra… ..and Ash Eli.

Tyler (02:30.863)

Hi everybody.

Ash (02:34.37)

I know a bank where the wild time blows, Where ox slips and nodding violet grows, Quite the over-canopied with luscious woodbine, With sweet musk roses and egalantine, There sleeps Titania, some time of the night, Lullied in these flowers with dances and delight.

Randall James (02:58.398)

I thought we already did the bard.

Ash (03:03.814)

Well, you pedant that was Oberon from Midsummer Night’s Dream.

Randall James (03:09.63)

Written by the Bard, yeah.

Ash (03:11.066)

written by the Bard, but we’re talking about Oberon’s home realm, the Feywild. So it felt appropriate.

Tyler (03:11.096)

Yeah.

Tyler (03:17.243)

Okay, guys. Season four, we’re in season four, 20 plus episodes in, in all of the time that we’ve been doing this podcast. I think that is the first time that we’ve had a Shakespeare reading on the podcast longer than what you egg stabs him.

Ash (03:39.258)

Oh, it’s going to get better. I’m going to be quoting Shakespeare all the time during this. No, I’m just kidding. I’ll probably do it once more at the end, but we’ll see. We’ll see how I feel.

Randall James (03:39.626)

That’s pretty good.

Tyler (03:44.548)

I’m here for it.

Randall James (03:50.058)

That’s fair. It’s like, I don’t know how to quote Shakespeare, but also talk about running games online for people. I’m looking forward to figure what you come up with for that. It’s gonna be great.

All right. Well, I think I think we’ve got it done. It’s actually I’m going to point the finger. Ash, what are we doing tonight?

Ash (04:07.134)

Oh, we’re talking about the Feywild, that mysterious realm that exists in a plane, similar but also in many ways different. The realm of dreams, one might say. The realm where fairies prance and hags make deals with unwary travelers, and the archfey play their never-ending game of politics with each other for nothing more than a whim.

Tyler (04:35.707)

That feels right.

Randall James (04:35.902)

That sounds rad.

Ash (04:37.208)

Mm-hmm.

Randall James (04:39.71)

Let’s go there. Why did none of my games go to the Feywild? We don’t have to talk about that now, but we’re gonna have to come to it at some point.

Tyler (04:45.211)

I’m gonna go to bed.

Ash (04:46.046)

I would say the main reason is it hard. Feywild hard.

Randall James (04:52.486)

It’s hard to live in or it’s hard to run the game in?

Ash (04:54.034)

It’s hard. It’s hard to run a game in as we’ll find soon. Find out soon because Tyler’s going to be our info dump. There’s not. Hey, he’s the lore master, he knows what he is, but there’s not a lot of information on the fair wild. It’s pretty nebulous. And also, the Feywild is supposed to be weird.

Tyler (05:01.998)

Hahaha!

Tyler (05:07.424)

Yeah.

Ash (05:18.706)

And trying to make weird settings like stuff that feels like a dream that doesn’t really isn’t really consistent doesn’t ascribe to the laws of physics can be really challenging for most DMS. Also, it is the people who inhabit it are fundamentally chaotic in a way that a lot of DMS aren’t really comfortable playing. So the setting is difficult, there’s not a lot of information on it. And the people who inhabit it are hard to roleplay as.

Randall James (05:48.518)

I hear that, but I feel like if I wanted to go somewhere where I could jovially out-murder hobo my murder hobos, like, isn’t this it?

Ash (05:56.158)

Yeah. I mean, in the Feywild, you’re more likely to meet a Fey who will be like, I’ll help you as long as I can kill you, watch you die with my own bare hands and then resurrect you. Can I do that? That’d be great.

Randall James (05:57.459)

Wait.

Randall James (06:10.878)

with wait Ash do you hear that?

Ash (06:15.106)

Mm.

Randall James (06:17.331)

I think that’s the wayback machine.

Ash (06:19.648)

Yes.

Tyler (06:20.443)

The Layback Machine! You heard me warming it up! Alright, so we’re going to start with a brief glimpse into the past. So in terms of D&D timeline, like real world timeline of D&D, in previous editions the Feywild was simply called the Plane of Fairy, which is way too long, so I understand why they changed it to the Feywild. The Plane of Fairy has been around for a very long time.

dates back way, way previous, like prior to D&D, a lot of stuff here is taken from real world mythology. So, like a lot of the named characters literally come from Shakespeare, Midsummer Night’s Dream. A lot of the creatures like Fomorians come from Northern European folklore. There’s a lot of stuff from Ireland and Scotland. A lot of creatures, you know,

brownies, redcaps, kelpies. I think satyrs may be like the only one I can think of that just comes from Greek mythology. So like it is very much a hodgepodge of fairies and various myths all thrown into this weird cartoony soup where they kind of hate each other sometimes.

Ash (07:41.15)

Yeah, the Feywild is kind of like the reason why it feels like kind of a mishmash is it really is. It’s sort of a combination of like fairy tales, like Western European fairy tales, specifically Celtic folklore, and that’s especially true with like the archfey themselves, like the archfey are kind of like the old gods of

of the of Celtic mythology there was like the Donan and the Toatha Donan. I can’t remember off the top of my head and I am sorry if I butcher the pronunciations of those. But yeah so it’s very much just like Celtic mythology land is what it feels like.

Tyler (08:18.435)

Ha ha ha!

Randall James (08:33.094)

Yeah, it’s stories you tell your children to convince them not to go into the woods, because for some reason kids aren’t afraid of bears, but they are afraid of like the will of the wisp dragging them into the bog and drowning them. So you work with what’s available, keep those kids alive, except for in D&D, or in tabletop gaming in general and dungeon fantasy, we get to actually experience the Feywild.

Tyler (08:55.211)

Yeah. All right, so let’s talk just super brief.

Ash (08:59.814)

Thank you. Thank you, Quasar. Yeah, we actually have a person in the chat who’s probably going to correct all of us on this. Tuatha de Danone. Yeah, Tuatha de Danone. Am I pronouncing that right? I don’t know. Tuatha de Danone. I can’t. I don’t know. I’m sure I’ll hear I’m sure I will hear about it from Quasar on Monday.

Tyler (09:07.248)

Ha ha

Tyler (09:15.395)

I’m sure the internet will correct us.

Randall James (09:19.399)

people tweet at you.

Tyler (09:20.702)

Hahaha

uh, at Grave and Ashes, any and all hate mail for the podcast.

Ash (09:27.562)

Yeah, I’m a racist apparently.

Tyler (09:31.021)

Oh.

Randall James (09:33.906)

Wait, we’re gonna move on quick, that way back machine.

Ash (09:35.478)

problematic?

Tyler (09:38.192)

Ah, way back machine. All right, so really we don’t need to spend a whole lot of time in the way back machine because very little has changed about the Feywild across editions. It really hasn’t gotten a lot of attention in fifth edition. We got…

We got the Wild Beyond the Witchlight adventure, which, you know, an entire campaign set in the Feywild. But beyond that, there really hasn’t been any attention paid to it. We get monster descriptions, we get the like two paragraphs of description in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, and that’s really it. So all of the lore we have is either cobbled together from monster descriptions or from previous editions. So like a lot of the stuff we’re gonna talk about tonight is from…

manuals of the planes from various editions from the Forgotten Realms Wiki. And yeah, we are, yes, we are also going to talk about the first world in Pathfinder, which is Pathfinder’s equivalent to the Feywild. It’s functionally the same thing, but they have to change the name and change the lore to, you know, copy my homework, but make it look different.

Tyler (10:48.536)

So the…

Tyler (10:52.943)

So we talked on a previous episode, I have no idea what order this is going to release in, but we talked on a previous episode about the Ethereal Plane and how it’s coterminous with the Material Plane, they overlap each other. The Ethereal Plane does the same thing for the Feywild, and the Feywild sits kind of like right above the Material Plane in the Cosmic Order. It is at least as large as the Material Plane, everything on the Material Plane is reflected in the Feywild.

Ash (11:21.13)

Yeah, you can think of the Feywild, the Material plane and the Shadowfell, which we’ll talk about another time as like a sandwich or maybe an Oreo. You know, you got your gooey center, which is the prime material plane. You got the two pieces of bread or cookie, I guess. And this metaphor got away from me real fast. But yeah, yeah. It’s it’s got that sort of heart out across. No, I can’t. I can’t. I don’t know where I’m going with this. But

Tyler (11:29.801)

Yeah. Hehehehe.

Tyler (11:39.215)

Hahaha

Randall James (11:40.586)

So keep going, keep going.

Randall James (11:49.514)

It tends to be dark in both the Feywild and Shadowfell. That’s good.

Ash (11:52.714)

Yeah, the Feywild is pretty on the surface, but it’s dark in terms of its morality and how it deals with things and the Shadowfell is ugly on the surface, but it has its redeeming qualities. But yeah, essentially like the Feywild and the Shadowfell are two polar opposites of each other. The Feywild is essentially the prime material plane. If it had been untouched by human civilization, essentially. And that’s why

unlike other realms that don’t like have one to one equivalent locations with the Prime Material, places in the Fey Wild and the Shadowfell will so like if you go to if you go to like the Standing Stone area in the Prime Material plane, that same location on the Fey Wild might be like a Feylords palace or something like that. With you know, the trees that were once kind of just kind of sparse and barren are now lush and

multi-colored and stuff like that. That same place in the Shadowfell might be a blasted heath with just misery and undead deadary and yeah you get the idea. But yeah that’s kind of the Feywild. The Feywild and the Prime Material plane are interconnected. And if something catastrophic were to happen to one it would happen to the other. So the people on both planes are kind of

Tyler (12:58.479)

Hahaha

Ash (13:17.579)

They’re kind of a, what is the word I’m looking for?

Ash (13:24.718)

they’re kind of encouraged to not try to destroy one another. That would be great.

Randall James (13:32.306)

Mutually assured destruction. Yeah. I wanna read something from the player’s handbook. So I think it’s true. We basically get a paragraph in the PHP on the Feywild, but I really liked this and I think it helps set the tone of what to expect when you get there. The sky is a light with the faded colors of the setting or perhaps rising sun, but in fact, the sun never truly sets or rises. It remains stationary, dusky and low in the sky.

Ash (13:33.918)

Yes.

Randall James (13:59.882)

So the idea here that like it’s eternal twilight, can you see? Yeah, you can always see. Can you see well? Probably not. Imagine if you walked out your back door at dusk and no matter how long you were out, no matter how far you walked, it just remained eternally dusk.

Tyler (14:22.747)

You know, I mean, like, there are bright sunsets, there are dim sunsets, like, if the sun is above the horizon, even if it’s setting, it’s still reasonably bright. Like, I wouldn’t make Vision.

Ash (14:36.95)

Yeah, one thing.

Randall James (14:37.25)

Oh, that’s not the argument that I was making to make like vision an issue. Just that, I don’t know, you can have a lot of fun with that. Like it, that eternal twilight is, is fun and spooky.

Ash (14:49.854)

Yeah, so something that’s going to become evident as we talk about the Feywild is there’s going to be a lot of contradictory information because there’s a lot of contradictory information about the Feywild. It’s a it’s a realm that doesn’t really follow a set rule. And so it’s kind of it is their land of DM fiat, it is whatever you want it to be. But something that is pretty common in most depictions of the Feywild that I’ve seen.

Tyler (15:00.464)

Yeah

Ash (15:17.294)

is there are parts of the Feywild that are that have very brightly lit. They’re beautiful and gorgeous. Like everything’s flowering and green. There are places where it is always dark and it’s filled with brambles and horrible bogs and just awfulness. And a lot of that has to do with the division between the courts of summer and the courts of winter.

Sometimes courts of spring and autumn factor in, but they’re not addressed as much. The main dichotomy is between the court of summer and the court of winter, which again, I apologize to our Scottish, Irish, and Welsh people. I’m going to try to do this, is I believe a reference to the Donnan and the Tawatha-Denon, which would be the Seeliefe and the Unseeliefe in classical mythology.

Tyler (16:11.835)

I think we can get away with seely and unseely. I hope the internet will forgive us.

Ash (16:14.378)

Yeah, no, that’s what we’re going to do. That’s what they’re referred to as in D&D. So that’s what we’re going to do. I just wanted to give the historical context because I’m a nerd and also maybe a little bit of a pompous ass and also problematic. So there I’ve said everything. Now you don’t have to at me on Twitter. OK. Is it Shay? Is it Shay Quaz? Is that did I pronounce that right? No, wait.

Tyler (16:25.047)

Hehehehehehe

Tyler (16:31.399)

That’s why we’re here.

Tyler (16:42.367)

S-I-D-H-E? She? Why is there a D in there?

Ash (16:44.358)

She she. OK. Because Celtic is weird, Gaelic is weird. The only reason I know that is because the Witcher, I think, trained me. They call they call El’s and Shay, but it seems that they pronounced it wrong. So good to know.

Tyler (16:51.919)

Okay.

Tyler (17:05.243)

Okay. All right. So we’ve hit this a little bit, but like, there really is a frustratingly small amount of information from official sources. Like, I went through the manual of the planes for fourth edition and third edition, and like everything available in fifth edition. And in 5e, the information about the planes is literally just like, what is there in the

Tyler (17:33.343)

in the player’s handbook. In fourth edition, there were 16 pages, which I’m pretty sure is the largest page count given to the Feywild than any edition I’m familiar with. And then 3.5, it’s like half a page in the manual of the plane. So like, there’s a ton of stuff in the Feywild, just the information is nowhere centralized. It’s not well aggregated, it’s not explained well, and you kind of have to cobble it together from like a million different sources, or just, you know, Google it and hope that the end

That’s right.

Tyler (18:06.755)

So one thing I do like about how it’s presented in 5e is we get a couple of optional rules for each of the planes. Like in previous editions, traveling the planes was much more dangerous because each plane has its own rules. You had to worry about things like gravity and weird physics and other things like that. But in 5e, those are all optional rules, probably because if you’re going to be in the Feywild for like five minutes, the DM doesn’t want to have to be like, oh, yeah, time dilated weird. And it’s yesterday.

Randall James (18:35.024)

And the campaign’s over, because everyone’s dead.

Tyler (18:36.587)

Yeah.

Ash (18:40.178)

Yeah, the time dilation seems to be a pretty big part of the Feywild in most D&D things. And that’s that again, Tyler’s giving us the historical D&D context, I’m going to be the historical real word context, that the reason why that is, is again goes back to those folk tales like, I believe the story of Rip Van Winkle, or, you know, different, basically, there’s a lot of

Tyler (18:56.475)

fleets.

Ash (19:10.038)

where someone meets a fae or a fairy is taken off to their realm and they spend maybe a month or two with that person and it’s a great time, but they eventually miss their homeland so they go back and find that a hundred years has passed and everyone they know is dead. I remember, and Kwasik can correct me if I’m wrong, there was this one story of this knight who meets this beautiful fae lady. They get married. He goes back to her castle in the fae wild.

what we would call the Feywild. And he misses his family. So he comes home and she says, okay, you can go home, but you have to stay on the horse. Otherwise you won’t be able to return to me. And he’s like, okay. So he goes back, he finds out a hundred years has passed and everybody knows that she’s dead. So he has a freak out and he gets off the horse, instantly ages a hundred years and dies. So.

Tyler (20:02.792)

Oh! Ha ha ha! She warned him.

Ash (20:06.302)

Yeah, listen to the listen to your very people, man. They they’re not just they’re not just trying to. I mean, sometimes they’re trying to mess with you, but pretty much always they’re trying to mess with you. But in that case, I don’t think she was messing with him. If they if they married you and they were real about it, maybe listen to them because they’re probably not messing with you.

Randall James (20:07.434)

It’s fair.

Tyler (20:10.115)

Eh.

Tyler (20:13.371)

Ha ha.

Randall James (20:15.242)

I think always, yeah.

Randall James (20:27.654)

Yeah, in that particular story, it’s like I gave you one instruction. There was only one thing you had to do. So really it’s your fault, isn’t it? Isn’t it?

Tyler (20:33.967)

Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha.

Ash (20:34.058)

You did not follow it. Yeah. Idiot, idiot. Fricking idiot.

Tyler (20:38.351)

Well, but it sounds like he won’t live to regret it. So. Ha. OK. All right, so let’s talk about those optional rules real quick, because I think they’re neat. I like rules. So the first one we’re given is memory loss. So with this rule, when a creature enters the Feywild, you can go in, you can have your cool adventures. But when you leave.

Randall James (20:44.618)

There was a minute there.

Tyler (21:06.831)

there’s a chance to just forget everything that happened. So it’s a DC 10 wisdom save to resist the effect. And even if you succeed, then your memories are just perpetually fuzzy. So you won’t remember exact details. You might remember like broad strokes of what happened, but you’re not gonna remember like, ah, yes, we had turkey sandwiches for lunch or something like that.

Randall James (21:28.554)

There was Turkish delight in the winter and I loved it.

Tyler (21:31.071)

I’m sorry.

Randall James (21:33.638)

Right, Narnia, great example of the Feywild, right? Kids go in, quick adventure, they’ve run around Narnia for a while, they live an entire lifetime, they become kings and queens over Narnia, and they’re like, hey, I kinda miss home, it’s time to go home, and then boom, their kids stuck in World War II again.

Ash (21:38.64)

Oh yeah.

Tyler (21:38.85)

Oh.

Tyler (21:42.052)

I’m out.

Tyler (21:45.627)

Mm-hmm.

Tyler (21:52.308)

Hahaha, jeez, yeah.

Ash (21:55.446)

Now without a Jesus lie and thank you, Kwasa. No, you know, it just it just wouldn’t be a good depiction of Celtic mythology if we didn’t sneak in a little Jesus somewhere in there, because that’s pretty accurate. Most depictions of Celtic mythology, because we have so little of like what Celtic mythology was before the advent of Christianity that a lot of it.

Tyler (21:58.132)

Yeah.

Randall James (21:58.563)

haha

Tyler (22:08.29)

Hahaha

Tyler (22:19.867)

Hmm.

Ash (22:20.526)

is unclear what is actually original and what was sort of morphed to fit the Christian narrative.

Randall James (22:27.53)

my understanding is like CS Lewis broadcasts, this is exactly what I’m doing and it’s going to be great.

Tyler (22:27.632)

interesting.

Ash (22:33.67)

Yeah, but it’s why there’s like a back and forth between scholars, whether like the, you know, the Fae and the Donnen are like gods or something else, because the materials that we have don’t ever really refer to them as gods, just like tricky spirits who don’t have humanity’s best interest in her, but we don’t know if that’s from the original lore or if that’s a Christian corruption of what the lore was.

Tyler (22:34.947)

Sorry.

Ash (23:01.474)

that maybe these were gods that in retrospect were twisted into tricky spirits that want to take advantage of mortal men.

Tyler (23:11.065)

Interesting.

Catholics. I mean…

Ash (23:15.81)

They ruin everything, man. They ruin everything. That’s my problematic take for the day. Historical, historical Catholic Christians ruined mythology. OK, it’s why we only have one source for Norse mythology and why it was written by a very adamant Christian guy for his own purposes. And there is so much stuff that is probably not in the original in the original mythology. And it makes me mad. Ah.

Tyler (23:21.307)

Cheers!

Randall James (23:42.491)

I love the take that like, yeah, medieval Catholics ruined Western European mythology. There’s like a modern Catholic priest scholar sitting at home reading, listening to this for like, yeah, that’s fair.

Tyler (23:54.267)

Hey, they didn’t also name all the demons.

Ash (23:55.09)

To be fair, if there’s a Catholic, if there’s…

Ash (23:59.926)

That’s true. Thank you, Catholics, for giving us names of demons. That’s good. But to be fair, if you’re a Catholic priest listening to this podcast, you’re probably not… If you’re playing D&D as a Catholic priest, I don’t think you’re allowed to do that because of Satan, but maybe I’m wrong.

Randall James (24:16.762)

No, no, that’s it, that’s it.

Tyler (24:20.227)

I remember one day, like every once in a while, sorry, a few years ago when my Twitter following was a lot smaller, every time someone followed me, I would get very excited and go see who they were. Cause like, okay, who’s in my cool little community that I’m trying to grow. And there was one day where I got two people to follow me and I was very excited about it. One of them was a practicing Catholic priest and the other one was a professional furry artist.

Ash (24:22.396)

Hahahaha!

Tyler (24:49.795)

That really shows the dichotomy and range of this community.

Randall James (24:55.107)

Or it was actually the same person just wanting to join on both accounts to follow.

Ash (24:59.778)

Hahaha

Tyler (25:01.144)

You know, I’m not gonna judge. Live your life, don’t hurt people. Okay, so back to rules and stuff. So we talked about the time warp. The Dungeon Master’s Guide does actually have a table for how to handle the time warp. So you roll a d20. If you roll really low, time passes slower. If you roll really high, time passes faster.

Randall James (25:01.44)

It could be either. Yeah.

Tyler (25:26.971)

there’s a six in 10 chance of nothing happening. So it’s like, it’s a good starting point, but honestly, if you as a DM are going in, just like, what if I just randomized how time flowed for a little bit? What would happen there? Like, you are a much braver DM than I am. That’s not a good idea. Don’t do that.

Ash (25:44.406)

I disagree with you. I just agree with you whole throatedly. I think it is a fantastic idea, especially if you’re going to be especially if you’re going to be dealing with the Feywild a lot. It’s just it’s a it’s a risk every time you go to the Feywild stuff is weird and be okay with breaking your game a little. I think it’s great. Like if you if you go to the face, sorry, if you go to the Feywild to like get to try to get a MacGuffin to

Randall James (25:47.181)

Ho Ho!

Tyler (25:52.13)

Okay.

Randall James (26:05.758)

What, I guess-

Tyler (26:05.983)

Okay.

Ash (26:12.066)

beat the master, I mean, beat the big bad evil guy who’s sent on conquering the world and G-roll is like, oh, oh no, a hundred years passed while you guys are in the Feywild. Guess who’s now in control of the world? It’s the big bad evil guy. I think that is a good, a good, a good, adds a lot of tension and drama to the situation. But obviously that’s a session zero conversation you need to have with your players.

Tyler (26:23.707)

Ha ha.

WAH

Ha ha ha!

Tyler (26:41.967)

Yeah.

Randall James (26:42.546)

What you just said is exactly why almost every 5e module has ignored the Feywild.

Ash (26:52.79)

That is true.

Randall James (26:53.458)

I’m like, imagine in the middle of our Dragonlands campaign, you find a way to trip into the Feywild and crin and then you come back and it’s like, oh yeah, uh, Decesis runs everything. The Dragon Queen is one, everyone you loved is dead. Uh, you know, Kalamana is now like a resort for draconians. So

Tyler (26:54.499)

Yeah, alright.

Ash (27:10.198)

Well, hey, that sounds like the start of a really fun and interesting new campaign.

Just saying. Maybe I’m just a little bit too statistic. I don’t know.

Randall James (27:17.073)

Yeah.

Randall James (27:22.914)

No, no, on the flip side, though, I feel like if that’s the game you want to run and everybody’s there for it, like that would make an amazing campaign. But you would intentionally have to structure it where the story you are looking to tell. If you I’m actually I’m gonna say this differently. If you have a story you’re looking to tell. I worry you’re not going to be able to tell it randomly rolling on this table and letting things fast forward decades at a time.

Tyler (27:46.967)

Yes, yes, agreed.

Ash (27:47.426)

Yeah, maybe randomly rolling on a table is not the way to go. I think you should probably have in mind what you want your time dilation to be or at least or at least have a table that you’re okay with it rolling on any one of those things. But so maybe not like a hundred years, maybe like a month or two passes. But Quasit made a good point. And a lot of in a lot of depictions of the Feywild.

Randall James (27:54.43)

story fiat.

Ash (28:16.77)

there are natives to the Feywild, like Archfey and other people, who can help you deal with the time dilation. So if your players are worried that on returning, the time dilation is going to mess up their plans, then the answer is, okay, we can’t leave the Feywild until we can find a way to guarantee that when we come back, everything won’t have gone to crap. That actually was used to pretty great effect in the climax of Critical Role’s Campaign 1. Spoilers, I guess.

Tyler (28:46.871)

Hehehehe

Ash (28:46.942)

The players were basically on the eve of the final battle and they were really hurting for resources. So they decided to go to the Feywild to try to heal up and stuff. And they had befriended an archfey there and they were like, hey, can you ensure the time dilation is only like a minute when we come back if we take a long rest here? And he said, sure, I’ll do that. But you have to do something for me in exchange.

Tyler (29:16.12)

Yeah, of course.

Ash (29:16.238)

And so that’s a way you can do it, and it’s without just ignoring the fundamentals of the Feywild entirely. The fey, like devils, love them some deals, man. Just be careful when it comes to Feylords, because they don’t always hold up their end at the bargain. That’s the difference between devils.

Tyler (29:29.053)

Hehehehe

Tyler (29:37.227)

Yeah, devils are contractually obligated to be honest and follow through on their deals. Faye, it’s just… Scout’s honor, I guess.

Ash (29:45.756)

They will help you for as long as it suits their whims and entertains them. That’s the big thing.

Randall James (29:52.651)

I know we kick alignment all the time, right? But it’s lawful evil, devils, chaotic whatever, archfey.

Ash (30:00.082)

Yeah, no, that’s the thing. I don’t like the difference between the Sealy and the Unsealy Fae is very, very nebulous. Like the Sealy are described as still very chaotic, but they’ll still try to help every so often as long as it entertains them and suits their purposes. Unsealy Fae, you should just never trust. They will always go with what…

Randall James (30:19.443)

Hahaha

Ash (30:27.266)

messes with you the most because that’s what they find the most entertaining. The only time that they will ever not do that is if they feel threatened, and they don’t have an easy way out or if helping you would be the more entertaining option.

Randall James (30:42.534)

Yeah, so Klaus is pointing out like there is kind of this theme of like the fade don’t lie. There’s like a strong undertone of that throughout the throughout mythology. I will say I love that. And at that point, it is a lot like the devils that they’re contractually obligated to what you agree to. But what you think you agree to and what you actually agree to may be two very separate things. I love that. I love that for this.

Ash (30:51.616)

Yeah.

Tyler (31:05.013)

Yeah.

Ash (31:06.354)

Yeah, that is very true because it is true that like I mean, again, it depends on the depiction and the fae that you’re dealing with on silly fade do like themselves some lie. Sealy Fae are more difficult because they will tell you the truth, but in a warped and twisted way in a way that feels like a lie of omission, or maybe they didn’t give you all the information you needed.

So where it’s like, I told you that you would find your answer. I didn’t tell you it was going to be the one you wanted. Stuff like that. Yeah. Do you just have to accept that any sort of deal or chat that you have with any sort of fake, especially archfey creature, is going to be sort of a monkey’s paw situation where it’s like they’ll take your exact wording of the request. It’s like, OK, yeah, I’ll do that.

Randall James (31:42.955)

We didn’t specify what question. What good was that to me?

Ash (32:03.138)

but I’ll do it exactly as you requested it and not in the spirit of the request, but the literal of the request sort of thing. And again, that contributes to why the Feywild isn’t depicted as much because that can be hard trying to tell a lie that isn’t a lie is hard for most people.

Randall James (32:21.522)

Yeah, I mean, you really have to work on that ahead of time. And almost like at the end of the session, what is it you’re trying to get them to agree to? You spend a week working out that contract to open up the next session, and then your players blow it up, and you’re like, we’re leaving the Faywild. We’re never coming back here.

Tyler (32:21.554)

Yeah.

Ash (32:35.39)

Oh, that’s great. That’s really great. Quazza just gave a really good example. I’ll trade you I’ll give you what you want in exchange for one minute of your life. And you find out that the one minute was the minute you were born, which means you’re no longer alive. So technically, they told the truth. They just weren’t specific about it. So it’s always it’s like with wish when you’re worried that the that the DM is going to take the literal example of your wish. You want to make sure you cover all your bases when dealing with Faye.

Tyler (32:35.691)

Yeah.

Tyler (32:48.666)

What?

Randall James (33:05.994)

Okay, so I feel like we’ve spent a long time talking about the Feywild both in real world mythology as well as in 5e. I want to ask the question, Pathfinder First World, how much like it is it? Is it all the same story? Is it everything that we’ve been talking about? Just bring it over to PFT, have some fun.

Tyler (33:26.931)

So it’s the lore is very different from D&D. So in D&D, like the Feywild and the Material Plane have probably been around for the same amount of time. Creatures have moved back and forth between them over time and stuff has happened. But the like overall makeup of the multiverse has been static. In in Pathfinder, the first world was essentially the rough draft for

Like the gods were figuring out how to be gods, how to make stuff. And they’re like, okay, we’re gonna make physics, I guess. We’re gonna make life and ideas and all of these things. So like very much like a college student’s folder of like homework assignment, homework assignment, final, homework assignment, final, final. Like that is the Feywild, all jumbled up. So like there are parts of the Feywild where physics doesn’t work right.

the gods hadn’t figured out how physics works. There are parts of the faith like

Randall James (34:30.153)

First World or Feywild?

Tyler (34:32.547)

First World, thank you. Yeah, it’s hard to shake that habit. So it’s very easy to, as a GM, to go into the First World and say, okay, I need a discrete place. I need a walled canyon where the players can explore. And you can just say, oh yeah, you have found this forest that’s floating upside down above the rest of the First World and gravity is backwards, so you’re stuck on this island upside down.

Why do I want it that way? Don’t question it, first world, cartoon logic, I don’t know. Let’s see, so the lore also talks about the inhabitants like having some limited ability to shape the nature of the first world. So like very, very powerful creatures can just be like, reality is what I want it to be in an area around me, much like limbo in D&D.

But most of the inhabitants generally like the chaos, the uncertainty, the fact that the world is rough and crazy and unpredictable. So if you as mortals come in and start messing with things and try and stabilize the first world, the locals don’t like that and they’re going to retaliate.

Tyler (35:52.019)

In general, it’s just a crazy wacky place. I would go adventure there. Let’s see, the… Randall, I’ve run you through a fistful of flowers. The sequel adventure features a portal into the first world where first world logic starts to bleed into the universe and things start going a little wacky towards the end of the adventure and your job is to close the portal. And like the…

The lore for the first world talks about this too. Portals will occasionally open between the two planes. When that happens, the universe becomes more like vibrant, crazy plants do weird things, like everything’s bright colors and unusual. And then conversely in the first world, the other end of the portal starts to stabilize much more like the universe. So people on both sides of the portal, very upset that this is happening. But depending on what kind of

Randall James (36:48.798)

Hahaha

Tyler (36:50.167)

Yeah, depending on what kind of fae you find in like local to the portal on the other side They’re gonna respond to differently like in a lot of cases They’ll just come through the portal and be like, I don’t know whose fault this is. I’m gonna kill everything

Randall James (37:05.094)

Yeah, what’s funny to me in this is like the Leshees leaping through the portal to make the first world not become like the material plane like, oh, you know, these trees, they’re turning green and growing up. I can imagine people in the first world looking at Leshees be like, no, these guys are cool.

Tyler (37:20.401)

Yeah, yeah, you’d hope.

Randall James (37:23.063)

Let’s hang on to these. Let’s have more of these, but I don’t know, that oak? Absolutely not. We’re not doing that here.

Tyler (37:27.812)

Yeah.

Randall James (37:31.611)

Okay. And so ultimately, it sounds like we’re really arriving, like we want the world to feel the same. We want adventuring in the first world probably to feel a lot like adventuring in the Feywild. It’s just that the lore of how we got here is different between the two systems.

Tyler (37:46.819)

Yes and no. I’d say the First World is probably a little crazier than D&D’s Feywild. Like, D&D’s Feywild has fixed rules that apply across the entire plane. Like, it has physics that you can understand. It has logic that you can understand. First World, it’s very much like, yeah, well, understand somewhat. Yeah, that’s fair. The First World, like, the rules change from place to place. Like, depending on where you are in the First World, like, you can…

Ash (38:04.554)

somewhat.

Tyler (38:15.823)

could just have to relearn how movement works.

Randall James (38:18.826)

Okay, and so if we’re saying that 5e’s Feywild is a bit like Narnia, including the fact that we’re going to bring mythology from other places in, we might say that First World is Alice in Wonderland.

Tyler (38:32.171)

Uh, yeah, that’s pretty close to it. Yeah, well, gosh, it’s kind of a fuzzy line. Like, Alice in Wonderland is a great example of the Feywild or really just any fairy story. It’s, like, there are parts of Alice in Wonderland that you could definitely say, like, oh yeah, that’s some first-world logic there.

Randall James (38:55.274)

Perfect. Good enough for me. Okay, so I am an adventuring party. I’ve heard about these famous adventurers that were in a pinch and needed a long rest, and so they leapt into the Feywild hoping that a patron they’d worked with previously might let them take a long rest and then go back a minute later. And I’m thinking, that sounds great, because I’m about to die. How do I get into the Feywild?

Ash (38:55.35)

Yeah.

Tyler (38:56.143)

Nah. Pfft. Yeah.

Ash (39:21.346)

think the better question you have to ask yourself is how do I get out of the fair wild once I’m there? Because you don’t usually go find a way into the Feywild the Feywild finds you. It’s more of a situation where you’re out fishing with your buddy one day and you go to maybe take a leak in the forest and your buddy realizes you didn’t come back because you walked into a

Tyler (39:26.492)

Hahaha!

Ash (39:46.87)

barrier between worlds and now you’re with a dry ad who is like, you’re staying with me now you’re mine now. It’s very typical. Obviously, the easiest most consistent way to get there is with plane shift, but that’s a high level spell. Some campaigns or settings have like specific places where the Feywild crosses boundaries, there’s like might be portals and stuff. Or if you’re in the outlands, you just

Randall James (39:49.546)

in there.

Tyler (39:51.483)

Hehehehe

Ash (40:15.842)

find a portal to the Feywild, but usually you don’t realize you’re in the Feywild until you’re already you’ve already walked pretty far into it. And at that point, it’s like, oh, crap. How do I get back? How do I get out of here? And if you’re not a if you’re not an adventurer, the answer is you don’t. This is where you live now.

Tyler (40:30.447)

Yeah.

Tyler (40:35.255)

Yeah, that’s really true. Like the Feywild is notably the only plane of existence that you can get to from the material plane by accident while doing something completely normal. In, like various sources talk about this, but in natural places that haven’t been touched much by like intelligent life, the

the barrier between the planes can become thin enough that you can’t just walk through a place and there you go. Like Ash said, a ring of mushrooms could appear. That could just be a portal to the Feywild. And just like you step through it, you keep walking, you think nothing of it. Everything looks the same because the Feywild can look very similar to the material plane. And as you go, you turn around and it’s like, oh, look, there’s a Cheshire cat there. What’s going on?

Ash (41:27.75)

Yeah. Yeah, and Klauzo makes another good point. You can’t even rely on your friend to notice you’re gone sometimes because the thing FaZe love to do is that once you are in their clutches, they replace you with a doppelganger. That’s where changelings originally come from. They are not… and changelings in D&D are just creatures that can change their faces, but in original lore, it’s…

Randall James (41:27.881)

Yeah.

Ash (41:54.61)

a person who was replaced by the fae for the specific purpose of abducting them and their relatives never finding out about it. Very great stuff.

Randall James (42:02.022)

Yeah, which hag has that of doing that? Like they steal a child and then they put like a

Ash (42:06.678)

uh green hags are pretty famous for doing stuff like that that’s like a pathfinder really held onto that lore for changelings because changelings and pathfinder if you haven’t played pathfinder you might be confused as to what a changeling is in that game because they’re not like they are in 5e you can’t just change your face changelings are usually female and they can be of any race but they’re usually the daughters of hags

Randall James (42:10.556)

Yeah.

Tyler (42:12.091)

That sounds right. Um.

Ash (42:36.786)

like they were either corrupted by some magic and put back with their families or they were there the replacement like the hag stole the original ate it and then made you and put you back with your family and you’re destined to hear the call and return to your hag mother and become a hag you can ignore the call but it becomes harder and harder to resist

I know this because I played a changeling in Pathfinder 1, although my hag mom turned out to be very nice and very loving and just wanted me to be my best self. So it was great.

Randall James (43:15.326)

Hashtag none.

Tyler (43:16.708)

Was your best self also a hag?

Ash (43:18.51)

No, no, no. Yeah, uh, she didn’t make me turn into a hag Um, she was kind of cursed with being a hag, but she was a very beautiful hag She wasn’t like, you know the typical depictions so she was something completely different But it was great because I was worried I was gonna have to kill her because I knew about hags and It sucked for my character because she ran away from home because the family that her hag mother put her with Were awful to her very bad Um, so it was nice that she had a loving mother

Tyler (43:30.799)

Yeah.

Randall James (43:45.735)

I think we’ll…

Ash (43:47.774)

It’s for just from the last person you would expect to be a loving mother.

Randall James (43:53.23)

I think one of the Toma Beast actually has a beautiful hag. I can’t remember which one right now. I might try to figure that out. I love that story, because like, what did you do? She wasn’t happy with being a hag, brought you in, and it’s like, okay, you can have this life, and it’s gonna be great, but I’m not gonna, we’re gonna break the cycle, you and I. And that’s beautiful.

Ash (44:09.866)

Well, she was cursed. I don’t want to get too far off course, but she was cursed by something that we’re still trying to figure out exactly how it happened. But she’s sort of like a combination of a dryad and a hag because she’s bound to this tree and she can’t leave the forest. And some people tried to kill her and my dad, succeeded in killing my dad. And so to protect me, she sent me to live with the foster family. So yeah.

Randall James (44:40.638)

The Feywild.

Ash (44:41.551)

It was a beautiful little story, a beautiful little reveal. Nice subversion.

Tyler (44:48.246)

Alright, so speaking of cool creatures, how about we talk about some creatures native to the Feywild? Ah boy, there are so many of them. Oh my goodness.

Ash (44:53.013)

They’re my favorite. I love Faye.

Ash (44:57.85)

I know we should really do an episode just about Faye because there’s so many.

Tyler (45:03.387)

Have we not done that? Shoot! Oh my goodness.

Randall James (45:03.558)

Yeah, okay. No.

Ash (45:05.815)

We have not. We’ve done others, but we have not done Faye.

Tyler (45:09.131)

Yeah. Okay, alright, so future episode on the fey. Um, alright, so just some, like…

Some very notable creatures that people run into frequently in their games. Elves, originally fey, came from the Feywild, depending on which edition’s interpretation. In the current 5e lore, Eladrin are native to the Feywild, spent too much time on the material plane, some of them became elves. Goblins and hobgoblins and bugbears, all the goblinoids were-

are originally fey creatures, which is why the updated stats, they now have the fey ancestry trait. And like, they basically had different roles, like, goblins were still like, live out in the wilds and generally uncivilized, hobgoblins were basically humans, the equivalent of humans within fey society. Like, there were a lot of them, they lived in cities, they lived in the fey courts, they did all the things that humans do.

and then Maglubiet was like, hey, I’m raising this big army of goblins and I need somebody slightly taller than goblins to command the goblins, hobgoblins. So grabs a bunch of hobgoblins, marches the army onto the material plane, loses whatever war that was, and was like, eh, I give up, you guys live here now. Yeah.

Randall James (46:32.874)

bringing you all back.

Ash (46:35.49)

So should we list some famous fey besides elves? There’s also everybody’s favorite hags. Everybody loves a good hag. Pixies, sprites, brownies. There’s so many different types of fair like little fairy that we would be here all day if we had to do it. Strangely, unicorns are fey. I think or no, they’re celestial, aren’t they? Right. I think they should be fey anyway.

Tyler (46:53.687)

Yeah.

Tyler (46:59.436)

Yeah, they’re celestials.

Tyler (47:03.535)

I agree.

Ash (47:04.642)

Blink dogs are also fey, if I recall correctly. Satyrs are also fey. There are some others that I’m blanking on right now. We already mentioned hags.

Tyler (47:07.276)

Yeah?

Tyler (47:15.131)

Hat, uh, Sentris Hags, you already said hags. Um, I think we just did. Um, Redcaps, Mean Locks, Uh, Fomorians, Yeah.

Randall James (47:18.266)

No one said centaurs yet, right?

Ash (47:20.893)

Centaurs.

Ash (47:28.098)

Fomorians, that’s the one, that’s the one, yeah. Fomorians are really interesting. They were, so Fomorians are like giants. Give me just a second. I’m just gonna…

Randall James (47:33.926)

I’m actually not familiar with that, tell me about it.

Tyler (47:42.235)

They’re like messed up face cyclopses. Cyclopes?

Ash (47:45.83)

Yeah, they, you know, let’s see. Yeah, the elves remember when Fomorians were among the most handsome of races, possessed of brilliant minds and unrivaled magical ability. That physical perfection did not extend to their hearts, however, as a lust for magic and power consumed them. The Fomorians sought to conquer the Feywild and enslave its inhabitants, claiming those creatures’ magic for themselves. When the Fey united to defend their realm, the Fomorians fought them and were subjugated to a terrible curse.

One by one, the giants fell as their bodies were warped to reflect the evil in their hearts. Stripped of their grace and magical power, the wretched whores fled from the light, delving deep below the world to nurse their hatred. Into the Fadark. Should we talk about the Fadark?

Tyler (48:29.553)

Yeah, let’s talk about the Fade Dark a little bit. I don’t actually know all that much about it. Do you know things, Ash? No. I don’t.

Ash (48:31.478)

because…

Ash (48:35.766)

This is one where I’m kind of at a disadvantage because there’s so little information about the Feydark. But essentially, the Feydark, in its simplest of terms, is the Feywild equivalent of the Underdark in the prime material plane. We talked before about how the Feywild is very much a mirror and reflection of the prime material plane. So the places that the locations that exist in the prime material plane.

Randall James (48:42.66)

Oh, boop.

Tyler (49:01.529)

Mm-hmm.

Ash (49:04.61)

have a equivalent in the Feywild. And so logic presumes that there’s an equivalent to the Underdark, and that is the Feydark, where the nastiest creatures live, creatures like Fomorians, blink dogs, Tyler’s favorite Fey spiders. They like hanging out here. Yeah. Yeah, it’s like the Underdark.

Tyler (49:23.951)

Phase spiders. Yeah.

Ha ha.

Randall James (49:28.778)

makes a lot of sense.

Ash (49:33.462)

but just all the bad fey. Sometimes I’ve heard that sometimes mind flayers find their way here, but the stink of arcane magic makes it hard for them to live there because arcane magic is literally everywhere in the Feywild. So you won’t run to them as much as you would in the Prime material.

Tyler (49:52.955)

That makes a lot of sense. OK, so I want to dip into Pathfinder here, because Pathfinder has some really cool creatures. They’ve got a lot of cool creatures. There’s a lot of overlap. A lot of the same iconic faith or mythology are going to be there, same names, a lot of the same concepts, because Wizards of the Coast can’t put intellectual property on.

real world mythology that’s hundreds of years old. So a lot of those things exist. Something that I thought was really cool, like the River of Souls is this whole huge thing in Pathfinder lore. Souls start from the Forge of Creation, which is the positive energy plane, and goes down through the First World, the universe, the Netherworld or the Shadowfell, and then into the Void and like that.

that cycle basically powers the multiverse, but the creatures native to the Feywild aren’t part of the River of Souls. Like they don’t have the kind of souls that get judged by the God of Death and then sent on to the afterlife. So they’re just detached from the whole mortality cycle. So instead of being mortal, if a creature native to the First World dies, they just reappear 10 days later.

So literally like death has no consequence for them But if they leave the first world and die outside of the first world, that’s it. Like they’re just gone from existence They like they have no afterlife, but they are functionally immortal as long as they stay on the world But because they’re functionally immortal, they basically have no value of life. It’s like you have annoyed me. I’m gonna kill you I’ll see in 10 days

Ash (51:43.05)

Yeah, if you want ideas for fey, I honestly think pathfinder has way more interesting fae than five Five he does just has way more of them, too My favorite my personal favorite fey and pathfinder gremlins. I love them to pieces They are so great and there are so many of them Um, though everybody’s favorite in pathfinder. I say that sarcastically as pug wampies uh, because pug want

Tyler (51:53.434)

Yeah.

Tyler (52:09.979)

Okay.

Ash (52:10.89)

Pugwampies have an unlock aura, which is essentially like anybody who’s within 20 feet of them. All of your roles are at disadvantage. All of them. Yep. I had a fight recently in my Pathfinder 1 game where it was just two gremlins against a party of four and it classified it as severe. I was just like…

Tyler (52:20.579)

Oh god, that’s miserable. Ha ha ha. Huh.

Ash (52:34.562)

How can this be severe? Because one of them was a pug whompy and my players missed 90% of their attacks because it has an AC of 20 at level one and the players are level one. And so, yeah, they were.

Tyler (52:46.403)

Whoa!

Randall James (52:48.466)

Wait, okay. Did the other gremlin also have disadvantage given that it is within 20 feet of

Tyler (52:54.981)

Ah, brutal.

Randall James (52:55.766)

Are Gremlins immune? Is this the reason this works? Okay, all right. Let’s launch them into the siege, right? Like just you’re going for a ride.

Ash (52:57.682)

Yeah. No, Pugwampies are notorious in the Pathfinder community as like, you know, how a 5e has those low CR creatures that can be really dangerous in the right hands, like a

Randall James (53:19.946)

Shadows.

Ash (53:26.946)

Pagumpis are that for the Pathfinder community. They are little bastards, but I love them so very much. And there’s good gremlins too, like gremlins that like to help people out. My favorite is also ale gremlins. Ale gremlins are…

Tyler (53:43.051)

Ale Cremlins? Do they serve you ale?

Ash (53:46.738)

No, they throw it at you and try to make you drunk. Yeah.

Tyler (53:48.667)

Ah, wait. I mean, that’s kind of serving it to you when you think about it.

Ash (53:54.062)

Yeah. There’s also brownies. Brownies are really sweet. Like if you can… That’s funny. I didn’t intend… That was not intentional. That was not intentional. But brownies are these cute little creatures who if you do them a favor, you have a friend for life. Even if you don’t want one, you are now befriended by…

Tyler (53:59.867)

Aaaaaah Hahahaha I know I liked it anyway

Randall James (54:02.558)

God.

Randall James (54:06.96)

Yeah.

Ash (54:19.798)

by brownie forever and they will like they’ll clean your house, they’ll do your dishes, they’ll massage your feet and stuff like that. And they’ll just hang around being kind of a little bit overbearing. But you know, it you got to put up with it because if you offend them at any point or like be mean to them, they will make your life a living hell. So be nice to brownies. Yeah.

Tyler (54:44.763)

Okay, alright.

Tyler (54:50.559)

Okay, so there’s some bigger creatures in terms of Pathfinder Fae as well. So there’s this group of creatures called the Eldest. They’re demigods native to the First World, and there’s an unspecified number of them. There’s a few that are known and established in the canon that appear frequently.

And then there are others that are like loosely mentioned a couple of times and then it’s already stated like there are other Eldest that are just like so far from the universe that they never interact so mortals have never met them But they’re demigods. They’re strong enough that they can like They can determine the rules of the first world around themselves to a degree so you can be like, okay gravity works normal here This is up. This is down all of those things

They’re powerful enough that you can worship them and get spells as a cleric, which is neat. And one of the cool things about worshiping them is like, in Pathfinder lore, you worship a deity, you die, you are judged by the God of Death and then sent on to the afterlife chosen for you by your deity, or if you don’t have a patron deity, stuff happens. But if you worship the eldest, you get reincarnated as a fey of

whatever variety best matched your personality in life. So like, if you like to party and drink and play music, you might spend eternity as a satyr, which honestly, that sounds kind of sweet.

Randall James (56:19.526)

Yeah, that’s, I think that’s my most likely outcome.

Tyler (56:20.292)

Yeah.

Tyler (56:23.546)

Heheheheheheh!

Ash (56:24.174)

Satyrs are deviant perverts. So maybe not Just saying just saying

Tyler (56:28.367)

Well, okay, fine, fine. Just watch, I’m gonna come back as a brownie. Just like, do nice things for other people for eternity.

Randall James (56:38.9)

Actually, yeah, I think that’s right.

Tyler (56:40.151)

Yeah.

Ash (56:40.627)

Yeah, you if and if anybody’s coming back as a brownie it’s Tyler a hundred percent but yeah, it is funny how there’s centaurs and Satyrs both of which are very Greek not Celtic at all Yeah, yeah, so that’s very funny

Tyler (56:45.324)

I

Tyler (56:54.119)

Oh, yeah, yes. Okay, gnomes. We have to hit gnomes. So I really like Pathfinder’s gnomes. I have always found gnomes in D&D to be pointless. I do not think that they need to exist. They’re not conceptually distinct enough from halflings that they need to be there. Anything that a gnome does in D&D lore…

you could swap that for a half-ling would be basically exactly the same.

Randall James (57:26.25)

Halflings don’t wear their funny hats.

Ash (57:28.078)

Tyler’s hot take for the day. You’re gonna get so many gnome lovers on your tail.

Tyler (57:28.139)

I- that’s all I’ve got. Yeah, I know.

Uh, yeah, that’s fine. Sure, bring it. Uh, okay. Now Pathfinder gnomes, very cool. They were natives of the first world. Something happened. And like the answer to what that was is actually multiple choice. Like there are multiple stories that I’ve read that say like, they think it might be this, it might be this. Not sure. But basically most of the gnomes had to leave the first world to survive whatever calamity this was.

but they are still very much tied to the first world. So they have this weird thing called the bleaching, where if you don’t continually seek out new experiences, try new things, like broaden your horizons, you eventually become so bored with existence that literally like all of the color washes out of you, including your clothes, and then eventually just die. So like gnomes can get literally bored to death. And like all…

Ash (58:30.595)

I love that. That’s fantastic.

Tyler (58:32.415)

Yeah. Yes. And when you see gnomes with all the like crazy hairdos like, oh, I’ve got like three foot tall spiky pink hairs, like no, their hair just grows like that. Like I thought that was a fashion thing. No, that’s normal.

Wonderful, I love it.

Ash (58:51.198)

Yeah, Pathfinder Gnomes are way cooler in terms of style than they are in 5e. 5e is just like halfling but they have like old persons and problematic Jewish stereotypes attached to them. So there you go. They got the hooked noses. They got their balding and got gray hair. Great. Thanks for that. That’s fantastic.

Randall James (59:07.575)

Yes.

Tyler (59:13.658)

They live in forests and talk to burrowing animals. That’s a thing that they could do.

Ash (59:18.558)

Yeah, also inventors. Yeah, whatever um, but uh Yeah, no the gnome like you look up gnomes in uh in pathfinder. They just look like they’re fun to hang out with they look like impish little scamps And uh, they’re like that race from dragon lance everybody hates that I love so very much Uh kinder. Yeah, they’re freaking great. I love them. Uh, I love trickster. Uh

Tyler (59:20.671)

Yeah.

Tyler (59:40.731)

tender.

Ash (59:47.946)

races. They’re so fun. It’s also why they’re not as annoying as kinder, but they still have that trickster sort of aspect to them. But it’s also why I love the Pathfinder’s depiction of goblins more than 5e. Goblins in Pathfinder are so freaking cute. I love them so much. Yeah. And again, 5e goblins are like, let’s do Jewish

Randall James (59:50.25)

They’re not as annoying as Kinder. Let’s be…

Tyler (59:52.847)

Yeah.

Tyler (01:00:08.202)

Weird green bobbleheads.

Randall James (01:00:10.386)

Yeah, afraid of dogs.

Ash (01:00:14.851)

stereotypes redux again.

Tyler (01:00:17.739)

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that 5e goblins are a Jewish stereotype. They tried really hard to get away from that, but yeah, there’s problematic lore there.

Ash (01:00:21.634)

They’re not i’m just I’m just i’m just I’m just i’m just making jokes. I actually really like the goblin depictions in uh, baldur’s gate I will have to say like they made them all like They had they kind of pulled inspiration from world of warcrafts of goblins and they gave them all like Uh new york slash brooklyn accents Which I love

Tyler (01:00:33.419)

Yeah.

Randall James (01:00:43.411)

Hahahaha

Tyler (01:00:44.099)

Yeah.

Tyler (01:00:52.219)

Alright, uh, okay, so we’ve-

Ash (01:00:53.43)

You’re no, I’m sorry. It wasn’t Brooklax. They gave them cockney accents. That’s what it was. Yeah.

Randall James (01:00:58.835)

Okay.

Tyler (01:01:00.187)

I feel like cockney accents are the easiest go-to for…

Ash (01:01:04.034)

Yeah, that’s the thing. Like if you if you like if you like weird depictions of goblins, I know we’re way off topic. But yeah, World of Warcraft, I think does a really good job of that. They’re still greedy little spiteful pricks, but they are they’re like the mob instead. They’re like New Jersey mobsters. Like they have they run casinos. They have like little suits on and they uh, they just uh, World of Warcraft.

Tyler (01:01:20.036)

Okay.

Randall James (01:01:28.518)

Wait, what world is this? Oh, okay, cool, all right.

Tyler (01:01:32.406)

No.

Ash (01:01:34.35)

No, they’re great. And they may that their technology is like, they’re constantly competing against their arch rivals, which are the gnomes who also are technological inventors. And gnomes make practical weird technology. The goblins are like, how can I get more power? I don’t care if it blows me up. I just want more power.

Tyler (01:01:42.267)

Ha ha.

Ash (01:01:58.82)

Yeah

Tyler (01:01:59.367)

Okay, all right, so let’s talk a bit about the Unseeliefe and the Seeliefe, whichever or it doesn’t matter. So this is something weird and this is taken from real world mythology. So Ash, I’m hoping you can fill in some gaps for me because I don’t have a great understanding. Oh no, quick, pull up Wikipedia. So the descriptions in like

Ash (01:02:17.49)

Oh no, put on the spot.

Tyler (01:02:27.835)

various D&D rulebooks that I dug through studying for this episode. Seelie Faye are the more friendly of the two, but that does not mean that they are good. In the Forgotten Realms, Titania, however her name is pronounced, the

Ash (01:02:44.186)

It’s so I think the agreed upon pronunciation is to is to Tanya, because that’s how it’s pronounced in Shakespeare. But there will be people who argue that it’s titanium. And they’re wrong, respectfully. Yeah. To Tanya.

Tyler (01:02:49.964)

Okay.

Randall James (01:03:00.106)

on this podcast to Tanya.

Tyler (01:03:00.342)

Alright.

Tyler (01:03:04.712)

Titania, Queen of the Summer Court, Queen of the Seelie Fae is the friendlier of the two. According to the Forgotten Realms Wiki, she is actively good-aligned, friendly, helpful, and a fae, so she’s probably up to some tricksy nonsense in general, but outside of that one source, I have found basically no suggestion that she is good-aligned. She is friendly, maybe helpful.

she’s still a fae, and she will probably help you as far as it entertains her, satisfies her whims, whatever. But my general understanding of the difference between the Seelie fae and the Unseelie fae is the Seelie fae view mortals as interesting novelties, play things like, okay, as soon as I’m bored with this, I’m going to go find something else to play with. The Unseelie fae view mortals as

Ash (01:03:58.322)

Yeah, or just like something to play with, like, and torment and torture. That’s kind of the unseelies whole deal. Like, it’s it if you’re looking for like alignment based descriptions, it doesn’t really fit. Because I would say you can’t really classify Seelie Faye as chaotic neutral as chaotic good. And G and by the same token, you can’t classify unseelie as chaotic evil.

I would say that Seelie are all of the Fae are chaotic neutral in some way, but I would say that Seelie Fae are chaotic neutral that lean sometimes towards good, whereas the Unseelie Fae are chaotic, just pure chaotic neutral without any sort of bias to one way or another.

Randall James (01:04:51.034)

I feel like the distinction I’m hearing you make really is this. If you’re working with a sea leaf,

Randall James (01:05:00.458)

There are things that you could say that will leave you dead. There’s a view of them. For the most part, you might be able to work your way through this situation. If you’re dealing with the unseeliefe, there are a few things you could say that might leave you alive. But most outcomes are gonna go the other direction.

Ash (01:05:04.802)

Correct.

Tyler (01:05:19.535)

That feels right.

Ash (01:05:21.954)

100%. So yeah, if you find yourself a prisoner of the Fae, if you’re in, if you find yourself in the summer court, which is the court of the Seelie Fae ruled by Queen Titania, then you’ll probably be okay as long as you keep your hosts entertained. If you’re in the unseelie court in the court of winter ruled by Queen Mab, then you are most likely screwed. So you have to find a way to escape.

Tyler (01:05:23.358)

Hahaha

Ash (01:05:50.242)

because more than likely, likely or not, you will either be dead or be tortured for their own amusement. So good luck with that.

Tyler (01:05:59.535)

Okay, now that’s something interesting. So the Queen of the Hansele Court, the Queen of Air and Darkness, in every official D&D source that I have looked through, like assembling materials, figuring out what’s canon, what’s not, all of those things she’s only referred to as the Queen of Air and Darkness. Her first name is never used. So.

Ash (01:06:25.014)

Yeah, because the reason for that is calling her name is considered to be very unlucky and she would it’s like a Voldemort situation. It’s like she would she becomes aware of your presence, especially if you’re in the Feywild. If you say her name, that’s just that just comes from like old folklore. So yeah.

Tyler (01:06:31.032)

Ahhhh.

Randall James (01:06:35.786)

We could have wrote that down for us though.

Tyler (01:06:37.748)

Yeah.

Tyler (01:06:41.999)

Got it.

Tyler (01:06:49.787)

Let’s see, something… Quazit in the chat is just typing Mab over and over again. Something else interesting about her, she apparently has no physical form. So like, if you go to wherever she is, you can feel her presence. You know exactly where she is, but she doesn’t have a physical form you can look at. If you can see invisible creatures, apparently she appears as basically a starkly beautiful

Ash (01:06:50.148)

Stop it. Stop it, Quazit.

Randall James (01:06:51.934)

hahahaha

Ash (01:06:56.355)

Uhhh…

Tyler (01:07:20.264)

but somehow has no physical form. Fairy logic.

Ash (01:07:23.69)

Yeah, she’s basically the Snow Queen, essentially. So so Elsa. But yeah, if you if you’re interested in Archfey and the lore of the archway, like, he doesn’t go into great detail about it. But fortunately, our friends at Cobalt Press have some really great stuff. Tome of Beast One has stat blocks and lore for

Tyler (01:07:28.832)

Okay, I could see it.

Hahahaha

Randall James (01:07:35.313)

Beautiful elven form.

Ash (01:07:52.766)

a bunch of different Feylords. And one of them is the Queen of Ice, which you could interpret as Queen Map, but they don’t actually call her that. And she is brutal, wouldn’t want to fight her. She’s like CR 17 or 20. I can’t remember. It’s like 21 maybe. But yeah, she’s brutal. She also has the Ring of Winter on her. So that’s fun. That’s where the Ring of Winter is supposed to come from.

Tyler (01:08:21.931)

Alright.

Randall James (01:08:24.146)

So we’ll have a link in the show notes. We did a review on the site, if you want to take a look at the recently re-released Tohme Beast 1 from Co-Op Press.

Tyler (01:08:31.407)

Yeah.

Ash (01:08:33.118)

Wait a second. Quasit is saying that it’s pronounced Mave instead of Mab. So I have a question for you, Quasit. Is that why you named your character Mave in our Planescape game? So many things make sense now.

Tyler (01:08:53.775)

Man, we need to get Zoe back on the podcast sometime. So like, hey, so fairies, what the heck?

Ash (01:09:00.542)

Yeah, yeah, she would be able to tell us so much.

Randall James (01:09:01.778)

Maybe when we…

Tyler (01:09:01.883)

I’m sorry.

Randall James (01:09:04.934)

When we do fey creatures, that’s probably the invite to put out there.

Ash (01:09:08.35)

Oh my god, yes, we need to get Zoe in for Fate Creatures deep dive.

Tyler (01:09:08.436)

Oh, I love that, eh? Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Tyler (01:09:17.683)

Alright, let’s see, so there’s just a couple more things I want to hit. So the fairy courts, the seelie and unseelie, they are specific courts, they have membership, they’re fey that aren’t members. In general, you have to be very attractive to actually be a member of the fey courts. So if you are an ugly fey, you are an innocent bystander in the seelie versus unseelie conflict. Also, both the seelie and unseelie fey hate femorians.

So like, lots of hatred, lots of rivalries. Yeah. Yeah, that seems like enough, honestly. Okay, so we talked about the Fae Dark briefly, both in the first world in Pathfinder and just in the Feywild, like we don’t have a whole lot of detailed specific places of interest. Like they-

Randall James (01:09:49.272)

Well, they’re not good looking, first of all.

Ash (01:09:51.549)

Yeah.

Ash (01:09:55.322)

That would be for a fae, yeah.

Randall James (01:09:58.174)

But then it got worse.

Tyler (01:10:15.555)

Because these realms are morphic and changing and crazy and time doesn’t work right, it’s really hard to be like, oh yeah, there’s a city right here that you can go to and it’s stable for whatever reason. That’s really just not a thing. So we don’t have any permanent detailed locations. One thing we do have, when Wild Beyond the Witchlight was released, we got a digital only supplement called Domains of Delight. Now this gave you a system for…

semi-randomly generating a FAY domain. So we talked about the domains of Dread. We did a whole episode about it. And it’s basically the inverse of that. It is a nice place to be. There’s some FAY in charge of things. Like the PDF is available on DM’s Guild. We’ll have an affiliate link in the show notes. It’s been a while since I’ve looked at it. So I don’t remember the exact specifics of how it works, but go check it out.

One warning I will give you, they optimize the PDF horribly, so we’ll just eat memory on your computer while it’s open.

Ash (01:11:18.484)

You can also find it on D&D Beyond.

Tyler (01:11:21.743)

Oh, is it on there? That’s fantastic. All right. That’s probably a better way to read it, honestly. Ha ha ha. Ah.

Randall James (01:11:35.85)

All right, we have a question of the week this week. This week our question of the week comes to us from MikeDB via email. You talk a lot about 3.5 and the Wayback Machine and what we can learn from it. What are some things we can learn from 4.e and bring to our 5.e games?

Tyler (01:11:50.299)

how to disappoint people.

Randall James (01:11:53.018)

No, I was good at that already. I don’t need another edition for that.

Tyler (01:11:55.067)

I’m sorry.

Ash (01:11:59.906)

Yeah, the short answer is nothing. No, I’m just kidding. So there is one or two things that you could take from 4e. The biggest one that I would say that I use quite a lot is skill challenges. Skill challenges were a really great addition to 4e that 5e for some reason got rid of. I think it was a really good idea. So for those who are unfamiliar, skill challenges are a type of thing that is like a group effort to overcome a certain challenge.

Randall James (01:12:11.486)

Yeah.

Ash (01:12:27.158)

basically like you put a situation in front of them and you ask the players how they would go about fixing this challenge. Like a classic example would be a ship caught in a storm. And so you ask a player, you ask players, okay, what do you want to contribute to the skill challenge? And a player might be like, oh, I’m gonna see if I can use Arcana to sort of regulate the winds with my magic sort of thing. So you have them roll, you set the DC based on how much you think that the…

a skill could contribute, feasibly contribute to the situation at hand. And essentially, it’s like a death save. You are trying to get three successes before three failures, or however many successes you want, depending on how challenging you want the skill challenge to be. It’s very fun. It allows players to get creative with their solutions and it allows players to feel like they’re doing teamwork to solve a problem. And it’s not just like, you’re the face.

you go and do the thing while we just sit here and look pretty. It’s it’s a way to get everybody involved on one task rather than just nominating the one person who’s good at the specific thing. So that is definitely something you can take from fourth edition. Another one that I would say is elite monsters. Elite monsters. The rules for you were pretty good about it. It’s like

Tyler (01:13:25.328)

Hehehehe

Ash (01:13:48.706)

They’re optimized to be one-on-one fight. We kind of have that with legendary actions, but watch any of Matt Colville’s videos. He does a lot of deep dive. He thinks 4E is way over-hated, and he thinks there was actually a lot of really good ideas in 4th edition that 5E just abandoned because people hated 4th edition so much. But he has some really great videos on taking the good parts of 4th edition.

Tyler (01:13:56.536)

Yeah.

Ash (01:14:15.986)

and making them work for fifth edition to make it more interesting. And that’s part of what his strongholds and followers stuff. A lot of if you read his Strongholds and Followers book, a lot of the systems he uses that are pulled directly from fourth edition.

Tyler (01:14:30.672)

Yeah. Honestly, Matt Colville is going to give you much better advice than we could because he has spent so much time talking about this. There are a couple of things that I did really like in fourth edition, the clear sense of pacing like at will encounter and daily powers. Like, everyone in your party had those things they were charged when you thought they did.

The way the daily powers worked, you had enough to get through an adventuring day if everyone, generally you would only use one daily power, maybe two, between the entire party in an encounter, and that was how you got through the day. If you used too many, you were resource starved later. And that sense of pacing, they kind of tried to do that in 5e with the adventuring day, but it is so hard to fit six to eight encounters into an adventuring day that it just hasn’t worked.

So like the pacing was better in 4i and I wish we could retain that. Also just like they did a really good job naming powers and stuff to make them sound really exciting. Yeah, like it.

Ash (01:15:40.438)

Yeah, and the progression from what I’ve heard of people who played fourth edition felt good. The big issue was that everybody all of the classes felt really homogeneous because everybody had the same kind of power. It was just re-flavored differently. But if they had made the classes more distinct but kept the progression, a lot of people kind of prefer how the progression felt.

in 4e than how it feels in 5e because every level you were getting something that felt really good and felt like it changed how you played the game whereas in 5e you have power jumps and then a lot of levels of nothing so it’s uh so yeah it uh that that’s one of the compliments i’ve heard about fourth edition was that it nailed progression really well if it even though it dropped the ball when it came to diversifying the classes

Randall James (01:16:33.854)

So all of my exposure to 4th edition was from listening to Drunks and Dragons. And I say that to then say, I really loved the idea of bloodied. And the fact that 5e doesn’t have anything like my players are constantly like, well, how’s this particular character looking? And like the most easy and honest answer is to be like, bloodied. Like great. And you’re not giving up a ton to say that because nobody’s sitting there counting exactly how much damage has been dealt to this creature.

Tyler (01:16:50.688)

Hahaha

Ash (01:17:01.398)

Yeah, that’s what I use bloodied terms all the time. For those who are unfamiliar, bloodied is what a DM says when a creature has reached below half its hit points so that your players are like, OK, so it’s getting there. Although sometimes we make a joke of like, how can a ghost be bloodied or how can a construct be bloodied? It is leaking ethereal energy or it’s sparking. Yeah, something like that.

Tyler (01:17:23.261)

Yeah.

Randall James (01:17:28.827)

More transparent now, I don’t know.

Ash (01:17:30.558)

Yeah, yeah, it’s struggling to hold itself together One brilliant idea speaking of like tracking hit points and stuff Uh that matt covil again, I can’t recommend matt covil enough. He has uh, some really great material on youtube All of his videos are worth watching um, but uh, he recommended that the players write down on like, uh The the if you have like a dry erase board that you use for your maps have the players write down how much damage They’ve done to a monster

And that way you can just kind of consult it. You don’t have to keep track of the monster health anymore because you have enough to keep track of. And you just look at him once it reaches the HP threshold, you’re like, okay, it’s dead. It helps you as a DM so that you don’t have to track that stuff and also helps the players to see how much damage they’re actually doing to a creature. So that’s a way you can do that.

Randall James (01:18:21.906)

I don’t want to do that.

Tyler (01:18:22.224)

Okay, so you track damage additively instead of subtracting it from their HP and you make players do the tracking. Yeah, okay, I can see that working in an in-person game.

Ash (01:18:26.878)

Yep. Yeah, it smooths combat. It makes it easier on the DM. It gives players, it makes players feel like they’re making progress regardless of… You can still keep it hidden because they don’t know what the max is. They just know that they’re dealing damage to it.

Tyler (01:18:43.78)

Yeah.

Randall James (01:18:45.914)

Okay, the one, and this is a small recall, I know we could easily work through this. How do you communicate resistance? Like independent of that idea, do you always do the like…

Tyler (01:18:54.501)

Oh.

Ash (01:18:55.094)

Oh, I always so when my players hit a creature that does has resistance, I feel it’s fair play to be like, your attack didn’t hit with as much half as you thought it would, because that feels like something a player would realize in the moment unless they have a very specific like, if you hit something, especially if you’re pretty used to hitting things, you’re going to realize when that

Tyler (01:19:12.752)

Yeah.

Ash (01:19:22.134)

that blow didn’t land as hard as you expected it to. So I have no problem with telling players that, hey, this creature resisted your attack. I know not all DMs are like that, but I feel like it’s fair play to do that. I don’t tell people what, I don’t tell my players what they’re resistant to. So they still have to find that out for themselves by experimenting, but once they know it, then they know it. And I don’t really see the issue in that unless you really like keeping that information hidden from players.

which I think will cause problems later on when they’re like, we’ve hit this guy so many times, why isn’t he going down? It’s a mystery. I don’t know. That just feels like a bad move. I don’t know. But that’s just my opinion.

Tyler (01:19:57.106)

Hehehe

Randall James (01:19:57.351)

Yeah.

Tyler (01:20:00.132)

Yeah.

Randall James (01:20:02.498)

I usually,

Randall James (01:20:30.63)

Let’s let’s say fire isn’t as effective as other things that you’re doing I think if you get it immediately part of I Like the idea of like add it up my gut reaction is having to do the it’s like You notice that it’s not super effective and they’re like, oh, it’s not super effective. We’re like, yeah, just cut that now

Ash (01:20:50.398)

Yeah, yeah. And that’s fine. Like if that’s the way you like to rule resistances, then maybe the system doesn’t work for you. But then I would also say, another way to do it is instead of like doing subtractive math in your head, which is hard for some people, just do the additive thing for yourself, just write down how much damage is done, add on to it. And once they reach the max, it’s dead. So yeah, just other ways to track health. But this is way off topic. But I hope that helps, Mike.

Tyler (01:20:51.406)

Hehehehe

Randall James (01:21:20.81)

flooded.

Ash (01:21:21.89)

bloodied.

Tyler (01:21:22.604)

Yeah.

Randall James (01:21:26.778)

All hail the leisure Illuminati. I’m Randall James, you’ll find me at amateurjack.com and on Twitter and Instagram at Jack amateur. I published a story fairly recently, one link in the show notes, it’s about alcoholism and then things get weird.

Ash (01:21:28.578)

Hail!

Tyler (01:21:47.311)

I’m Tyler Kamstow, you’ll find me on RPGBot.net, Facebook and Twitter, RPGBOTDOTNET, most other socials as RPGBot.

Ash (01:21:57.726)

If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, that you have but slumbered here while these visions did appear. I’m Ashi-Elai, you’ll find me dramatically reading tweets on, uh, at Graven Ashes.

You tweet at me and I promise I will read it dramatically in my head. Maybe I’ll even record it. All the time. Or you can hear my sultry, dramatic voice on YouTube at Ashraven Media. If you want to hear it even more often for your games, you can find me on start playing games and I will transport you to a world of fear and anything in between.

Tyler (01:22:20.042)

Hahaha

Randall James (01:22:20.486)

Does it all the time. Ha ha ha.

Randall James (01:22:50.662)

If you’ve enjoyed the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and rate us on Spotify or your favorite podcast app. It’s a quick free way to support the podcast and helps us to reach new listeners. You’ll find links in the show notes. You’ll find affiliate links for source books and other materials linked in the show notes, as well as on RPGBot.net. Following these links helps us to make this show happen every week. If your question should be the question of the week next week, please email podcast at RPGBot.net or message us on Twitter at RPGBOTDOTNET. Please also consider supporting us on Patreon, where you can find all kinds of great rewards.

At any tier, you’ll get early access to RPGBot.content and polls for future content. At our $3 tiers, you’ll enjoy your choice of ad-free access to RPGBot.net or ad-free podcast episodes and access to live stream podcast recordings. At our $5 tiers and above, you’ll get all of that plus access to the RPGBot.discord. You’ll find us at patreon.com slash RPGBot.

Leave a Reply